Kann nich Motor starten (E46, 2002)

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    • Kann nich Motor starten (E46, 2002)

      Guten Tag!

      Ich entschuldige mich fuer nicht gut Deutsch. Ich versuche das Problem erklaeren:
      Ich have E46 (chassis num. FZ49505). Vor 2 Monaten habe ich das gesehen. Wann Ich was gefahren, Motor konnte stopped selbst and dann weiter selbst starten). Das dauerte nur 1 sekunde und es gab rote licht "batterie" am diesen Moment. Das war sehr nicht oft (zweimal pro Monat).

      Vor 2 Wochen: Ich war mein Auto gefahren (10min), dann kleine Pause ( 2min) gemacht (motor aus). Dann konnte Ich nicht mehr motor starten. Ich konnte hoeren dass Starter konnte Motor drehen, aber keine Resultaet. I habe BMW Mobile angerufen, sie waren gekommen. Endlich wurde mein Auto zum Garage genommen.

      Sie dachten das es gabt Problem with Pumpe. Sie haben neu installerienen, aber kein Resultat. Dann sie haben gefunden dass gabt es keine Singal von Steuregeraet zum Pumpe. Sie haben desagt, man muss neu Steuergerate kaufen. Eine Woche spaeter haben sie neue box installieren. Keine Problem mehr. Ich bin 2min gefahren and mein Auto kam nich mehr. Die gleiche Problem: kann nicht mehr Motor starten.

      Seit 3 Tagen suchen Sie das Problem. Sie konnten Motor 3 Studen in Garage laufen lassen - kein Problem. Sie konnten selbst Auto fahren fuer 30mins - kein Problem. Und dann koennte nicht mehr noch einmal starten.

      Was denken Sie? Garage is offziel BMW garage. Aber sehe Ich, dass Master hat keine Idee was jetz machen.

      Danke Schoen!

      Slava

      ""
    • I guess that you speak english better than german, thats why I try to answer in english. Unfortunately I am not sure about your problem, but maybe you should change the garage.

      The problem of the official bmw garage (your bmw dealer maybe) is that they always think what the problem could be. But thinking is NOT knowing, you see what I mean? They want to earn money, thats why they change parts which COULD cause the malfunction.

      Your Battery is okay? Maybe a loose connection from the Battery?

      Hope you can find a solution...let us know!

    • yes, I do prefer English but I was not sure whether I am allowed to use it on this forum.
      I dont think it is the battery, since BMW Mobile Service even tried external battery to start the car. Plus, if the starter is working (ie. rotating the engine) -> the wiring from battery is ok. Otherwise it would not be electricity for feed the starter

      I called BMW CustomerCare in Munich already. They asked me to write the letter, so did I. The garage might be not good. If somebody knows a good one around/in Zurich, I would appreciate this info

      thank you!
      Slava

    • Original von RiMKa
      yes, I do prefer English but I waThe garage might be not good. If somebody knows a good one around/in Zurich, I would appreciate this info

      thank you!
      Slava


      Feel free to ask our mod Houbi. Im sure he can help you with this question.

      Good luck with your problem!

      Greets
      Marco

      :watchout: Wenn man Tiere nicht essen soll, warum sind sie dann aus Fleisch? :watchout:
    • Original von RiMKa
      yes, I do prefer English but I was not sure whether I am allowed to use it on this forum.
      I dont think it is the battery, since BMW Mobile Service even tried external battery to start the car. Plus, if the starter is working (ie. rotating the engine) -> the wiring from battery is ok. Otherwise it would not be electricity for feed the starter

      I called BMW CustomerCare in Munich already. They asked me to write the letter, so did I. The garage might be not good. If somebody knows a good one around/in Zurich, I would appreciate this info

      thank you!
      Slava


      Hmm, I dont know either if we are allowed to speak english instead of german, but most people in Germany will unterstand english instead of french people for example, but thats off topic.

      Its easier for me to understand your problem when you write english. Your german is quite good, but explaining a difficult problem in a difficult language likes german causes that people might misunderstand you.

      I am afraid to say, but as I am from Germany/Cologne I dont know any reliable dealer in Zurich :D

      With the battery cable I meant a loose/bad connection, not a disconnected cable. But I guess you have checked this already.

      Maybe a fuel soaked spark plug, or the spark plug itself? Can you ensure that your fuel pump is working when u start up your engine? Can u make a picture of your spark plugs, so that we can make sure they are fine?!

      Maybe a marten visited your car? When did this problem occur the first time?

      GreeZ
      Dirk
    • Original von Marco320d
      Original von RiMKa
      yes, I do prefer English but I waThe garage might be not good. If somebody knows a good one around/in Zurich, I would appreciate this info

      thank you!
      Slava


      Feel free to ask our mod Houbi. Im sure he can help you with this question.

      Good luck with your problem!

      Greets
      Marco



      BMW Bickel Auto AG


      Ask Houbi330i for more informations

      great regards

      MfG
      Björn

    • Thank you guys for your help and posts!

      Garage had suspected fuel pump as first reason. It was replaced by a new one, but the problem was existing: so they put an old one back. Afterwards they said: there is no signal coming from engine control unit (I guess it is motor steuerergerat in German) to fuel pump. They replaced this one (very expensive box I have to say) and asked me to pay in garage (no bills - cash or credit card). 2mins later after driving my car stopped with the same thing: I could not start engine while started was rotating motor without a problem. They took it back into garage. Last week they called saying "we found a problem! it is old firmware in new contol unit, we updated and it is ok now" When I went to pick it up, they said "it is not working again"

      I do suspect these crazy animals. I have been told it is very difficult to find the actual wire damaged though. Is there an easy way to find whether my control unit is working actually? no signal could mean just damaged wiring I guess? I payed 1500 SFR (control unit part) plus a work, but the problem stil exist. I have a feeling that it was not control unit cause

      Thank you for the garage you had mentioned. I will use it if I dont get help from BMW CustomerCare this week (I complained to them already about the service I got): they said that it takes about 3-4 days to react on this case

      thanks again! good forum and nice people - I guess to have to improve my German :)

      Slava

    • No problem for this help, thats why this page exists.

      Back to your problem:
      You see what I mean, they change (expensive) parts for nothing, only for the reason they THINK it could be the suspicious device.

      Your problem is really strange because your car suddenly stopps. From this distance its hard to make a reliable diagnosis. Do you have a protocol of the fault recorder? I hope you know what I mena, I am not sure if this is the right translation for "Fehlerspeicher". What I mean is that you can connect your car with a computer. Then you can see all the faults which occured during the last time. Maybe you can find an indication...

      Can you repair your car on your own? I guess not... ;))

      With the marten, I think it is just a possibility you should think about. Just take a look in the engine compartment and watch out for any traces of this cute but annoying animal.
      Your error which occurs as a random failure might be a short circuit...you should have a look at the fault recorder which I told you about at the beginning. Then you should post it here or send me to my email...

      Dont worry about your German, its good enough.

    • (we have been talking on another forum, it is FriendlyKiwi here :)

      OK, done some research about your problem

      Based on your N42 motor controlled by the ME9 engine management system (DME).

      [quote from BMW manuals]
      Battery voltage monitoring

      The battery voltage is continuously monitored in the DME. At a battery voltage of less than 2.5 V or greater than 24 V, a fault is entered. The diagnosis only becomes active 3 minutes after engine start-up. This means that the effects of the starting process or starting assistance on the battery voltage are not regarded as a fault.


      Fuel Pump
      The fuel pump is located in the fuel tank. It is switched on and off by means of a relay and delivers the fuel via the fuel filter to the fuel distributor pipe.

      Fuel pump relay
      The control unit can only monitor activation of the relay but not of the pump itself. A safety circuit ensures the relay can only be activated with the engine running and only shortly after switching the ignition lock to position 2 in order to build up pressure.

      Once the engine shuts down, the DME control unit no longer recognized engine speed and immediately switches off the relay. This ensures that the fuel pump cannot continue running when the engine turned off.
      [end quote]

      [here is my analysis]

      The DME (digital motor electronics) controls the fuel pump in the E46 via a relay, K96

      The fuel pump is protected by fuse F54, 15A

      Before you start hunting for weasel damage, I recommend:

      1. Replace fuse F54 (15A) with a new (or spare) one. Sometimes fuses develop hairline cracks that cause problems with vibration and heat. The fuse is very cheap to replace, try a new one.
      F54 is located in the fuseholder above the glovebox.

      2. For the same reason, replace fuse F3 (20A). This supplies power to the fuel pump relay, the secondary air pump relay and the AC compressor relay. If this fuse is cracked, you will loose power to the fuel pump relay. F3 is in the fuse carrier in the engine bay electronics box.

      3. Replace the fuel pump relay K96. Tarnished or burnt relay contacts cause many electrical problems. If the fuel pump looses power then fuel pressure will be lost and the engine will stop. A new, quality BMW relay is cheap and easy to fit. Relay K96 is located behind the glovebox, the leftmost of 4 relays.

      4. Check loom connector X6021 for corrosion and water damage or loose fitting. it is located in the electronics box in the engine bay where the DME is. Power to the fuel pump (and secondary air pump relay and AC compressor relay) go through pin 2 of X6021 (red wire with white stripe). If this has a bad connection, power to the fuel pump relay might become intermittent.

      5. I think it is impossible to have weasel damage in the fuel pump wiring, as the relay and fuse are in the glovebox, and the wiring from the relay to the pump goes through the inside of the car.
      However, the DME is in the engine bay and the DME controls the fuel pump relay. Some wiring from the DME to the inside of the car may be exposed. This is where one should inspect very very carefully.

      7. A way to diagnose the fuel pump: the fuel pump has 2 x wires on the fuel pump connector. Blue/white (12V power) and brown (ground)
      Run 2 x temporary wires from the fuel pump connector to a small 12V 5W light bulb that can be placed in view of the driver. The light bulb will light when the fuel pump is running. Drive the car, and monitor the light bulb. If the light goes off and then the engine fails, it proves lack of power to the fuel pump.


      Well, that probably exhausts all possible fuel pump power issues - if you work through the above and change fuses and relay and check the loom connector and monitor the pump, you will know for sure the state of your fuel pump.


      Swiki aka FriendlyKiwi

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von swiki ()

    • Original von Nutzername23
      No problem for this help, thats why this page exists.

      Back to your problem:
      You see what I mean, they change (expensive) parts for nothing, only for the reason they THINK it could be the suspicious device.

      Your problem is really strange because your car suddenly stopps. From this distance its hard to make a reliable diagnosis. Do you have a protocol of the fault recorder? I hope you know what I mena, I am not sure if this is the right translation for "Fehlerspeicher". What I mean is that you can connect your car with a computer. Then you can see all the faults which occured during the last time. Maybe you can find an indication...

      Can you repair your car on your own? I guess not... ;))

      With the marten, I think it is just a possibility you should think about. Just take a look in the engine compartment and watch out for any traces of this cute but annoying animal.
      Your error which occurs as a random failure might be a short circuit...you should have a look at the fault recorder which I told you about at the beginning. Then you should post it here or send me to my email...

      Dont worry about your German, its good enough.


      I guess I can not repair car on my own. I was able to do small things like : replacing environmental sensor, installing an interface for iPod and etc myself, but this case i believe is more difficult. Plus requires some equipment, like to pull the car up :)

      I know what you mean about this error messages. My car is in the garage right now (they put it outside and dont do anything, since I expect some help from BMW CustomerCare Munich. While talking to this department they said that BMW Engineers could help masters of garage remotely in case of need, but it takes several days normally before my complain is being processed and they could react). I don't have access to this error log read from the car. According to the master, there was no errors or they were misleading. At the moment I don't have them

      I have spoken regarding weasels (marten) with the master. Somehow he is confident that it is not the case. The arguments he used were: they don't bite fuel pipes (initially he was thinking that it was a failure of fuel system). My model does not have wires directly accessible to the animals, they are hidden in looms (protections around several wires going the same way). According to him they investigated weasels damage, but none was found

      Thank you for your help! As I said my current plan is to wait few days for BMW Munich to help resolve this matter. If it does not happen or brings no results, I will move my car to better garage (which was mentioned here already)

      sorry for a delay with the answer - I was away yesterday

      Slava
    • Hello FriendlyKiwi!

      thanks a lot for your messages and hints!

      Original von swiki
      (we have been talking on another forum, it is FriendlyKiwi here :)

      OK, done some research about your problem

      Based on your N42 motor controlled by the ME9 engine management system (DME).

      [quote from BMW manuals]
      Battery voltage monitoring

      The battery voltage is continuously monitored in the DME. At a battery voltage of less than 2.5 V or greater than 24 V, a fault is entered. The diagnosis only becomes active 3 minutes after engine start-up. This means that the effects of the starting process or starting assistance on the battery voltage are not regarded as a fault.


      Fuel Pump
      The fuel pump is located in the fuel tank. It is switched on and off by means of a relay and delivers the fuel via the fuel filter to the fuel distributor pipe.

      Fuel pump relay
      The control unit can only monitor activation of the relay but not of the pump itself. A safety circuit ensures the relay can only be activated with the engine running and only shortly after switching the ignition lock to position 2 in order to build up pressure.

      Once the engine shuts down, the DME control unit no longer recognized engine speed and immediately switches off the relay. This ensures that the fuel pump cannot continue running when the engine turned off.
      [end quote]

      [here is my analysis]

      The DME (digital motor electronics) controls the fuel pump in the E46 via a relay, K96

      The fuel pump is protected by fuse F54, 15A

      Before you start hunting for weasel damage, I recommend:

      1. Replace fuse F54 (15A) with a new (or spare) one. Sometimes fuses develop hairline cracks that cause problems with vibration and heat. The fuse is very cheap to replace, try a new one.
      F54 is located in the fuseholder above the glovebox.

      2. For the same reason, replace fuse F3 (20A). This supplies power to the fuel pump relay, the secondary air pump relay and the AC compressor relay. If this fuse is cracked, you will loose power to the fuel pump relay. F3 is in the fuse carrier in the engine bay electronics box.

      3. Replace the fuel pump relay K96. Tarnished or burnt relay contacts cause many electrical problems. If the fuel pump looses power then fuel pressure will be lost and the engine will stop. A new, quality BMW relay is cheap and easy to fit. Relay K96 is located behind the glovebox, the leftmost of 4 relays.

      4. Check loom connector X6021 for corrosion and water damage or loose fitting. it is located in the electronics box in the engine bay where the DME is. Power to the fuel pump (and secondary air pump relay and AC compressor relay) go through pin 2 of X6021 (red wire with white stripe). If this has a bad connection, power to the fuel pump relay might become intermittent.

      5. I think it is impossible to have weasel damage in the fuel pump wiring, as the relay and fuse are in the glovebox, and the wiring from the relay to the pump goes through the inside of the car.
      However, the DME is in the engine bay and the DME controls the fuel pump relay. Some wiring from the DME to the inside of the car may be exposed. This is where one should inspect very very carefully.

      7. A way to diagnose the fuel pump: the fuel pump has 2 x wires on the fuel pump connector. Blue/white (12V power) and brown (ground)
      Run 2 x temporary wires from the fuel pump connector to a small 12V 5W light bulb that can be placed in view of the driver. The light bulb will light when the fuel pump is running. Drive the car, and monitor the light bulb. If the light goes off and then the engine fails, it proves lack of power to the fuel pump.


      Well, that probably exhausts all possible fuel pump power issues - if you work through the above and change fuses and relay and check the loom connector and monitor the pump, you will know for sure the state of your fuel pump.


      Swiki aka FriendlyKiwi


      I am feeling sorry, since I did not say it very clearly that fuel system was checked already in the garage. They had replaced fuel pump by a new one, but the problem was still there. I don't know about fuses and relays though, I will ask master next time when I visit the garage.

      I will dare to ask you another thing : Is there a way according to your manuals to check whether engine control unit is working properly? they said "there was not signal coming from it to the fuel pump, so it was broken." (I guess they meant to fuel relay instead of the fuel pump directly according to your manual above). This box costed me alone (as replacement part 1200SFR). They installed new one and the problem still exists. They say "old one is broken anyway". Personally, I dont believe there is a big chance to have 2 things broke at the same time in the car. If old box is working, that means that whole bill (about 2000SFR) should not be charged to me at all.
      Since they insist on failure of old one, I might do the following: take a new one installed and ask for the old one (since it belongs to me). And I would like to check the old one afterwards

      Thanks a lot mate for info!!

      p.s are these manuals available to buy somethere?


      SlavaR
    • The case with the marten is improbable I know, but a case that MIGHT happen.
      BMW knows this problem, thats why alle the cables have an extra protective cover as u mentioned before. But I have seen cases where this hairy animal destroyed the wiring although there was this protective cover mounted, maybe this animal was very very hungry. Useless to say that you can see this of course...

      Anyway the fuel lines or electric connections to the fuel pump are impossible to reach for this animal because they go through the inside of your car, but it is possible that the fuel pump itself is working but the pump doesnt get a signal for some reason.

      Unless the error report doesnt give any useful hints and your car is still in the garage, we only can guess what could cause this problem.

      Think about what Swiki wrote, this guideline seems to be very useful if the fuel delivery system is responsible for your problem.

      Let us know please....

    • Original von Nutzername23
      The case with the marten is improbable I know, but a case that MIGHT happen.
      BMW knows this problem, thats why alle the cables have an extra protective cover as u mentioned before. But I have seen cases where this hairy animal destroyed the wiring although there was this protective cover mounted, maybe this animal was very very hungry. Useless to say that you can see this of course...

      Anyway the fuel lines or electric connections to the fuel pump are impossible to reach for this animal because they go through the inside of your car, but it is possible that the fuel pump itself is working but the pump doesnt get a signal for some reason.

      Unless the error report doesnt give any useful hints and your car is still in the garage, we only can guess what could cause this problem.

      Think about what Swiki wrote, this guideline seems to be very useful if the fuel delivery system is responsible for your problem.

      Let us know please....


      Sure, please get me right. Personally I would be happy if the root cause will be marten (since I have it covered by my insurance). I said to the master that I heard that they could bite the cables and it is difficult to find. He answered that he knows about it and they had checked it, but no damage was found. He was so confident that I started to feel that I won't be able to use the insurance to cover it ;)

      I know that without the physical access to the car and error log, it is difficult to say. Only blindly guesses and it could be many reasons for car failing. I appreciate the help you gave me here, I am not intending you guys to list me every possible reason. Once it is resolved by current garage or the new recommended one, I will let the know the root cause of course.

      thanks a lot again!!

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von RiMKa ()

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